that mind reading really comes in handy-wait, ain’t that the same guy with the homemade flamethrower?
He’s not the brightest guy out there but he’s pretty dependable to do what is least intelligent
@nikolai60: Interesting point and he seemed to have a similar response to Addy’s Ifrit like White Noise did.
Possibly another hidden Star Org agent like Xandar was, though with possibly a little more drive to help people instead of stabbing them in the back?
curiouser and curiouser
That picture of Jigsaw in panel 3…very anime-esque, but I love it.
Also, sorry for the double post, but man, Razil is rather casual about addressing Jigsaw, isn’t he? Does he not realize why she is an Executioner?
@thebobmaster: Perhaps he thinks death is better than the “rehab”?
Is Razil part Talmi? He looks like he is.
@thebobmaster: Not to put too fine a line on it, but the reason she’s an Executioner…is that she got thrown through a wall (well, several). Also, she’s an Executioner on the show (does this actually still count as “on the show?”), so he may think he’s safe from her murdering him.
@The_rippy_one Entirely possible but unlikely. i don’t think the general public knows she’s a Vampire. she he make know that she is an executioner but not how dangerous of one she is. i don’t even think that Gabriel has seen her as a vampire yet.
@E: *blink blink* Did you actually mean to address me? I’m confused, because I didn’t mention vampires…
Hmmmmmm….I find myself wondering why a Celeste would be one of the kids in what appears to be a fleet holding troubled kids?
Almost seems doubled handed of star org if the Endless and Celeste hybreds are on such good terms. Though I suppose that could be said about having one of the their Purebleeds in lockup.
@The_Rippy_One: I’m aware of how she became Executioner. But would Razil know that? I mean, assuming he was the one with the aerosol flamethrower, it’s not like he’s unaware of who she is, right?
Seriously, it’s been a while. I don’t remember if the kids were aware of who they were messing with on the ship.
@thebobmaster: Well he was threatening Sedja with it and not Jigsaw.
Though taking how most of the kids welcomed them, there might be differences between the crew. Some seem like refugee children and others might have a bigger clue of what’s going on and decided to support Gabriel.
They had to have at least some people keep an eye on the kids while others ran the ship and some of the kids might have been in better shape mentally then others.
There is another interpretation of possibly what Daisy and Jigsaw are possibly up to and it isn’t very flattering. It’s called ‘rocking the boat’ and many on this ship might be afraid they might sink or be caught by star org again if Gabriel’s ship sinks. Reason enough not to give Jigsaw the the respect her title deserves.
it’s possible rippy one i was two hours in from work and on my way to bed when i wrote that
Paron the lack of information, but as I remember, Celeste are known by their wings, but does that mean every being in this vast conglomerate who has wings is a Celeste? I may be wrong, but perhaps he is simply a being with no special powers. Please pardon the insomnia rumblings.
@Novawolf7: No – not every being with wings is a Celeste. The way to tell if a being is a Celeste or not is to look at the size of their wings. The Celeste can be identified by their full sized wings. Half Celeste hybrids on the other hand only have small wings.
@Novawolf: Half-Celeste also tend to have more than one pair of wings, while Touched tend to only have a single pair. I’d guess the kid is Touched.
@Guys: Any creature with at least one big ol’ set of wings on their back is a Celeste. Also, because they tend to crossbreed, they’ll blend traits of their “parent” species, which is why Razil here is a Talmi / Rejika hybrid — you don’t see that so much in Touched.
As far as other characters go:
@any who are concerned- Sorry to disagree but that looks like a full wing set to me http://www.lastres0rt.com/2010/10/its-universal/ . he could be like Akiros Wing span of an abettors brain of a swallow http://www.lastres0rt.com/2008/01/wingspan-of-an-albatross-brain-of-a-barn-swallow/ as for touched they have small wings like Harmony http://www.lastres0rt.com/2009/07/right-response-terrible-timing/ or the guy with winks on his head http://www.lastres0rt.com/2007/05/ah-dramatic-irony-awaits/ as for multiple sets of wings i’ll let Jigsaw’s from spring answer that http://www.formspring.me/lastres0rt/q/308624196970221021
i did not realize it took me that long to look up the links one the net came back up. well jigsaw answered the question while i was in limbo so it’s all good
@Jigsaw Forte: What the heck is a Rejika? You really need to make a page showing examples of all the different species IMO.
I love how quietly pleased Daisy is. 🙂
Since “The Floor” is “The (reviled) Rehab Floor,” seems like they’ve been recruiting from the most malcontent on the ship, which I suppose could be a blessing and a curse.
@thebobmaster: If they all get to watch TV, I think they know who they’re messing with. Razil probably just doesn’t care, and/or Jigsaw hasn’t done anything yet to warrant fearful respect.
@Josh.C: How do you imagine they’re going to start a mutiny? 😮
I get the impression that the Cult of the Endless wants everyone to join, including Celeste. The kids on the ship aren’t all troubled, but the ones that seem to be were likely damaged by the lt’s brainwashing.
@Lavabat: Unfortunatley, I think this commission is the one of the only things out there to name the Rejika, though we’ve seen plenty of them in the comic so far. 🙂
@Sulucamas: So a Rejika is an alien rabbit with a mohawk? Works for me!
Also, I think there is likely that some of these kids were sent to the Sea Org by their parents, and where then brainwashed by the Cult of the Endless.
Hmm…sound a little like a so-called “religion” in real life. I won’t name this so called “religion” as they have a habit of suing anyone who says anything about them that they don’t like…
And I like the idea of a mutiny! It would be a good opportunity for Captain Bligh impersonations! 😛
me i look at religion like i look at the song all my best friends are metal heads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYIx0sFNDH4 (well that song doesn’t really express what i want to say but putting all your faith in religion means you haven’t really taken the time to discover your fellow beings. i think most religion was a social construct that has become or a tool for control then whatever it was originally meant to be. (i think it was meant to be a unifying force myself)
@Lavabat: I bet you’re right about the kids (along with the possibility of some forced abduction –I mean, induction), but that sure is a funny way to spell Star Org. I also wouldn’t know anything about any non-fictitious religion that may or may not happen to bear a vague resemblance, symbolic or otherwise, to the glorious and benevolent Church of the Endless. 😉
@e_voyager: What do you think of the bland perspective that religion has always been a tool for both unification and control simultaneously?
@Sulucamas: Oops! Should be Star Org…
@Lavabat Freudian slip there?
@on religion: There are two basic truths that I concern myself with in respect to religion. First, it is, historically, the single best method of producing stage 3-4 morality in an individual (Kohlberg’s moral stages). Second, it is the single worst way to try and reach 5th stage (as in, it actively impedes an individual’s growth beyond the 4th stage), even (or especially) when they claim to serve as a disembodied 6. This dichotomy is one of the most troubling things about the subject, and, to me, is at the heart of the conflict between religious and irreligious thought. Religion creates safety, maturity, and stability – all critical things for a functional society. But you have to get beyond it’s influence to make things better (which, invariably results in at least temporary instability). If a religion’s done what it naturally does (create moral certitude), you won’t get enough 5’s and 6’s, but doing without it makes getting a majority up to social par very difficult (or, at least, inefficient), let alone reaching the superior levels needed.
@on religion –in my opinion, the worst thing about religion (or even philosophies, though they’re not *quite* the same thing) is when it gets organized. It’s a pretty sure bet that at some point, people are going to end up following/worshiping that organization, rather than the idea(l)s it supposedly represents. Then again, I have a few other problems with religion as well that I won’t go into here (though it does amuse me that I could dip into Family Circus for examples..and not the strips that might immediately come to mind, either).
And to bring it back on topic–the primary difference between a ‘cult’ and a ‘religion’ is that the latter is the one that gets funding and legal/gorvernment sanction…
@nikolai60: No – blond moment. 😛
@nikolai60: And that should have been blonde moment…
@Lavabat: Hey, I was just joshin’. I thought you’d done it on purpose! 😛
@The_Rippy_One: Neato! You learn something new every day. Thanks for teaching me that… I’M (Kohlberg moral stage) NUMBER 1! I’M NUMBER 1! I’M NUMBER 1!!! 😉
In light of all the positive contributions of religion, would you consider it a social necessity, albeit an imperfect one?
@Vulpis: Would it be safe to say that people generally just like to do/follow/worship things as a group?
I don’t know the technical requirements for getting government support for a “religion,” but I bet that in this far-flung future it’s not too hard to find some sovereign asteroid state to endorse you.
@Sulucamas: Maybe I did and my other comments were to make you think I took it seriously! 😀
@sulucamas it’s probably harder then you’d think. consider some of the wacky and strange things that are so called religions going one now. but then hopefully people will know better in the future. still i think Christianity and Hebrew and Shintoism will all survive. who knows the geek and Norse god may make a revival
@Lavabat: ha-HA! The world may never know! 😀
@e_voyager: One can only hope that people will know better, but with all the legalese that seems to pin things together two thousand years from now, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more “religions” than people would know what to do with. 😛
There’s certainly a lot more fun to be had with stories of how the religions of Terth supposedly survived into the future (or didn’t).
@Sulucamas: You mean I did not drop a big enough hint!? 😛
@Sulucamas: Necessity…hm…I think, currently, from a societal perspective…probably (and how that hurts my little black heart to say), just because of it’s efficiency.
Familial morality can be just as good (and is much better at generating 5’s and 6’s), but it is comparatively inefficient (religion can teach morality to an order of magnitude more people), and depends on the parents doing a good job. Here and now, no promises there.
Schools, in general, have neither the time, the staff, the flexibility, or the resources to parent effectively. Some boarding schools at least figure out they have to try, thankfully, but consistency is a real issue. Public schools are way too underfunded to really have a chance, as an institution. There are exceptions, but that’s often due to having a critical mass of teachers/staff willing to commit emotional suicide repeatedly. Good luck there.
And that leaves…tv and the internet…right. Sesame Street can work, actually, but fails on two points – the lessons fail when a child’s circumstances can not be related to the shows involved, or are disproved by experience (mommy REALLY doesn’t love me, AND Big Bird’s a LIAR! *double shot to the gut* *dead*)
The other problem with tv programs is that there is so much else to see, that’s contradictory, and of the lowest common denominator, which is very hard to beat. Net-side, there is little interest or in producing similar educational experiences, and if the signal:noise ratio is bad on tv, the net is OMGWTFBBQ, all my feels, dammit, tits or GTFO!
That isn’t to say that you can’t run a society without religion, just that there are no controls or incentives to give any other institution the leg up it needs to try to take its place and make up for their inefficiencies.
In space, I think, that would change. The constraints on that environment mean that you can institute the kinds of policies that could produce an irreligious moral society, because failing to do so means your space bubble will either be non-viable without immigration, or will pop. Not that you necessarily would, though any priest aboard would have to wear another hat as well, probably.
@Lavabat: I guess I’m just too dumb to figure it out! xD
@The_Rippy_One: OMGWTFBBQ! Could that space bubble be like this here White Diamond Crisis Center, or did you imagine something larger and even more long-term?
@Sulucamas: That’s…actually a really tricky question. Normally, I’d be looking for something a little more long term. But your question is whether something in White Diamond’s class could…
First, I think I can safely say that White Diamond’s ship class was not meant to be a generation ship. Most of it’s intended population is either transient (because they leave when they’re better) or not really capable of propagating society (which is why they are in a psych ward to begin with).
Short answer, this space bubble goes pop due to entropy. Being a hospital, it’s life support will be awesome. Being spec’d as a psych ward, you probably aren’t going to get too many nuts trying to blow the ship up if your AI watcher is any good at all. What you will get is, holed by a meteor, and forced stops at some sort of repair facility. Hospital ships are rarely rigged for multi-decade travel (cause that’s expensive to build), and the White Diamond ship class probably needs more extensive maintenance than it’s spec’d to provide for itself (being both expensive and denying the builder mainentance fees), and may require the occasional overhaul (which, perforce, means shutting down life supprot; everyone off the boat). You aren’t likely to produce an independently founded society in that sort of situation, (though, the longer you operate without stopping, the more likely it is to happen), but instead become a variation of the culture doing your maintenance.
Modified (with a asteroid harvester/factory), it may be viable. With a lot of planning and modding, a fleet could probably manage it just fine by taking some or all of a ships crew onto the other ships while their home ship is being overhauled, assuming at least two factories capable of making all the needed parts being present (larger ships can get around this by overhauling sectionally and building in significantly higher levels of redundancy, along with a factory to produce spares).
White Diamond, of course, can’t, because Gabe is pretty much a priest in the process of founding his own religion 😀 . Seriously, he is to the Endless what Satanists are to Christians…
I don’t know if we could build a white diamond class ship but we do have the tech to build to a planet side base or moon base station. of course f you build it on/around a 1 mile or bigger asteroid the chances are you can adapt it to travel through space but i’m sleepy so i may not be making much sense.
@The_Rippy_One Actually, I think you’ve given be a good example where philosophy vs. religion applies. What you describe in terms of moral guidelines is philosophy–most religions have them, buried under varying levels of Imaginary Friend and ‘Ignore Reality, Listen To The Guy In The Fancy Robes’.
@E_Voyager: E, you’re doing fine. Though, to be quite accurate, a mile wide, spherical nickle-iron asteroid, used effectively, is probably a bit much for a ship – not by size, but by mass (I’m estimating 17,195,950,000,000 kg minimum). The moment of inertia would make steering rather interesting…
@Vulpis: Well, sure, the major points of a religion are to explain the unexplainable (what happens post death being a fairly critical one), and to provide an incontestable* framework on which to build a society. It’s hard to build on the laws of man, starting out, for two reasons – there isn’t any reason to obey (“Do what I say!” “why?”) and that they can be revoked by some other person, which screws with stability. Those issues go away when the rules come from a divine source, just because of the nature of divinity (“Do what I say!” “Wh-“*lightning bolt*). That’s why so many religions kill people who point out that we’re taking the word of guys who are suffering from exposure, hopped up of mind altering drugs, are shysters, and/or the occasional guy with a Good Idea (or his his best buds. several hundred years removed). Not only because it’s blasphemous, but because it struck at the core foundation of the local society, and you don’t suffer a man to dynamite your house.
*incontestable in that the rules are defined and understood, not in that people will follow them.
On the subject of religion as discussed here, I recommend to further readers to read GK Chesterton’s “The Everlasting Man”. It makes hash of HG Wells’s “An Outline Of History”, which seems to make out that the rise of religion is some kind of accident. What I like best about this story is that it posits that religion is a universal constant among sapient beings, and that being made in “the Image and Likeness” of THE FIRST CAUSE has little if anything to do with a physical shape. For the Tamils to have accepted the Hebrew view of GOD means they had to interpret The Torah in this way, as well as have had a preestablished Aristotlian style philosophy prior to first contact with humans.
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